Posts by Cold Steel

8

All things have been fulfilled

by themaccauk11 in

its plain as day what jesus said was to those people standing in fornt of him and it was for one generation only .the prophecies were not about the end of the world but the end of the old jewish system of things.

why do people today since the 1700s put themselves in the shoes of the ones jesus was talking to.

i quote "trtuly i tell you, some of you standing here will not die until you see the son of man coming in his kingdom".

Cold Steel

The generation being discussed is most likely the generation in which the things Jesus is speaking about would happen. At least that's what many futurist theologians have long concluded. Complicating the exegeses is the fact that much of the New Testament is not exactly how it appears in many translations. As one scholar stated: "Much of the New Testament is in barbaric Greek, and the ancient pagans often jeered at the illiteracy and bad grammar of the Disciples; yet in our English Bible their grammar is meticulously correct. Is that an indication of skullduggery? No more than the poor grammar of the ancient Apostles was proof that they were not inspired."

In the case of Matthew 24, we have a number of things the Lord specifically mentons, beginning with the battle of Armageddon. Forget everything the Jehovah's Witnesses teach regarding Armageddon. The Lord is speaking of the last great confrontation between Judah and its enemies:

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

This is the battle of Gog and Magog, a time when Judah's enemies will descend upon them with great force. We know by reading Ezekiel 38-39 that this will happen after the Jews have been scattered to the ends of the earth and then gathered back into the lands of their inheritance. That couldn't possibly happen in that generation. The Romans drove the Jews out Judea and they were scattered throughout the world. Then, in the late 1800s, the Lord "set his hand again" to recover his people. (See Isaiah 11:11-12: " And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people.... And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.") Look how many years it took for that to happen!

Then, getting back to the grammar issue, Young's Literal Translation renders the "this generation" passage thus:

As you can see, there's some question as to what's being said here. We also know that many unauthorized changes were made by later scribes. Many atheists cite Matthew 24:34 to prove that Jesus issued a false prophecy; however, the prophecies did come to pass; just not in one generation.

Ezekiel writes:

After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations .... (38:8)
So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord , the Holy One in Israel. (39:7)
And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them. (39:21)
... the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward. (39:22)
And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me; therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword. According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them. (39:23-24)
When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations. (39:27)

By examining the above, you can place the time of this battle. This is not the battle at the end of the Millennium by the same name. Perhaps the Lord meant that in the generation in which these things happen, they will all be fulfilled. From history, we know the Jews were scattered throughout the nations. Then, generations later, they began gathering back to Judea in increasing numbers. Israel was formed in a day, and Judah is still gathering there. At some point in the future, I suspect Gog will establish a power base in Turkey and ally itself with other Islamic nations. Once, it was a moderate country with a moderate military structure; however, it has been sliding quickly towards a religious base. Whether Russia or Turkey will be where the Beast comes from, I have no idea.

Anyway, if one simply removes the one passage about the generation in which these things occur, the prophecies make much better sense.

8

All things have been fulfilled

by themaccauk11 in

its plain as day what jesus said was to those people standing in fornt of him and it was for one generation only .the prophecies were not about the end of the world but the end of the old jewish system of things.

why do people today since the 1700s put themselves in the shoes of the ones jesus was talking to.

i quote "trtuly i tell you, some of you standing here will not die until you see the son of man coming in his kingdom".

Cold Steel

I meant to post this above, but the copy and paste feature didn't work:

Ezekiel 39

8

All things have been fulfilled

by themaccauk11 in

its plain as day what jesus said was to those people standing in fornt of him and it was for one generation only .the prophecies were not about the end of the world but the end of the old jewish system of things.

why do people today since the 1700s put themselves in the shoes of the ones jesus was talking to.

i quote "trtuly i tell you, some of you standing here will not die until you see the son of man coming in his kingdom".

Cold Steel

Sorry...I can't buy into the preterist theology. There is too many prophecies that remain unfulfilled. Armageddon has not yet occurred. The Jews were to be scattered according to not only the Old Testament, but the New. And after being scattered, they were to be gathered back to the lands of their inheritance. According to prophecy, the enemies of Judah would be those "round about" them, a situation that did not exist until our day. Israel today is surrounded by enemies who have sworn their destruction. (See Ezekiel 38-39; Zechariah 12-14; Revelation 11) The scriptures thus say that the beast of Revelation, also known as "the Assyrian" and "Gog," would make war with the holy ones (Judah) and would overcome them. But just as Judah faced certain destruction, the Savior would return and rescue them. His feet at that day would stand on the Mount of Olives, which will cleave in twain, and the Jews would flee into the valley thereof. Then the Jews will ask him, "What are these wounds in thy hands?" And he will reply, "These are the wounds I received in the house of my friends."

Then will the Jews realize that their Messiah was the one they knew as Jesus of Nazareth, and then they will go into mourning. But in the "brightness" of his coming, he will destroy all but a sixth of those who came against Jerusalem. The Jews will them usher him into the temple through the East Gate, which will then be sealed forever. And it will take the inhabitants that are left seven years to burn the weapons of the beast. And as bodies are discovered, they will be tagged for burial. But before then, the wild animals and fowl will strip the flesh from the bones of the dead, and God said he would call them to the great feast of the Lord.

There are many other prophecies that remain, as yet, unfulfilled. So it's not over til the fat lady sings!

Ezekiel 38

Ezekiel 39

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199

Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?

by booker-t in

this is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.

the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.

the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.

Cold Steel

The angel does not say the Father will overshadow her but the Holy Spirit will and if the Holy Spirit is a person that would make him the father of Jesus.

I'm not a trinitarian, but I believe that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three individuals.

So in what way is the Father the "father" of Jesus Christ (Yahweh)? To answer this, we have to determine what makes someone a father of someone else. In short, it's the seed. Today it's possible for a person to give birth to someone without ever meeting the father. But the technician who places the seed in a woman is hardly the father. In the same way, the Holy Spirit is not the father of Jesus.

Anciently, when prophets like Moses saw God, they were first overshadowed by the Holy Spirit; otherwise, they would not be able to survive the experience. Not only did Moses speak to Yahweh "face to face," seventy of the elders of Israel, along with Moses, Aaron and Joshua, saw God and dined in his presence. The rest of Israel had the same opportunity, but they were afraid and told Moses that he should be God's intercessor.

In some way no one understands, the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary while the seed was transferred to her womb. But the seed was not that of the Holy Spirit, but that of the Father. Jesus existed as Jehovah in the Old Testament, during which he served as the intercessor between the Father and man. As the resurrected Jesus, he continues to be man's advocate with the Father. He is one in purpose with the Father, and thus when he prayed concerning the apostles, he said, "...that THEY may be ONE, even as WE are ONE." There was ONE quorum comprised of twelve members, just as there is ONE God comprised of multiple members. (We assume it's three, but we don't know everything about God.) If there are hundreds of billions of other universes besides ours, the oneness of God may comprise more, who knows? That has not been fully revealed.

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20

1500 year old text reports Jesus not Crucified

by designs in

found in 2000 with a group of antiquity smugglers this bible contains the gospel of barnabas according to the report in the national turk.. written in aramaic this gospel account was omitted by the church during the period of the council of nicea.. the text maintains a story similar to islam regarding jesus being a great prophet.. is has a reported value of $28million and is said to be in the museum of ankara.. http://moorishharem.com/culture-detail/1500-year-old-bible-that-jesus-christ-was-not-crucified-vatican-in-awe/.

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Cold Steel

The notion that Jesus wasn't crucified originally came from the gnostics, who believed that all matter is corrupt and that perfection could only be realized in the spirit. Jesus dying on the cross, in their minds (and in the minds of Muslims), would have been a failure on the part of God...and God doesn't make mistakes or have failures. So a number of traditions arose. One is that God did an end run around those who sought the death of Jesus. He turned the tide on them by making Judas look like Jesus, and spiriting Jesus away. Thus, the Romans crucified Judas while Jesus, unseen, laughed at them and their folly.

Of course this was heresy to the apostles and disciples, who taught that Jesus died for the sins of mankind (see Isa. 53) and was resurrected three days after his crucifixion, and that Judas committed suicide. The so-called Infancy Gospel, where Jesus, as a boy, cursed everyone who got in his way, and learned restraint as he grew older, also was popular reading and despite the fact it was a complete forgery, it found its way into the Qur'an along with the gnostic teachings. In fact, that's one of the "gotcha" points that prove the Qur'an is fiction. In fact, the author of the Infancy Gospel may have simply been writing it as a fictional account, even though it was very popular in Christian circles.

The bottom line is that the story of Jesus not being crucified is nothing new. Many saw the fall of Adam and Eve as being a failure on the part of God. Then, if Jesus' enemies succeeded in killing him, then that, too, would have been a failure. The Greek Orthodox position is that Adam and Eve were supposed to fall. For only by so doing could Jesus not only give them immortality, but "Eternal Life," as esoteric term meaning not immortality, but immortality with God, and co-inheritors with Christ. Thus, everything that Jesus became would be gained by everyone gaining Eternal Life. Thus, the fall and the resurrection were inseparately linked as a springboard to something that Adam and Eve never could have achieved on their own.

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8

Witnessing to a Theologian

by exWTslave in

when i found my fellow traveler reading theology today magazine, my pioneer spirit acted.

i started witnessing to him without knowing he was a professor of theology.

he patiently listened to me.

Cold Steel

Hey, I only post my opinion like anyone else. Other opinions may vary.

8

Witnessing to a Theologian

by exWTslave in

when i found my fellow traveler reading theology today magazine, my pioneer spirit acted.

i started witnessing to him without knowing he was a professor of theology.

he patiently listened to me.

Cold Steel

1) God rated Mary as “highly favored” or trustworthy (Luke 1:28), yet she did not bother to ensure that child Jesus was with her when she left the temple.

Actually, tradition has it that Jesus was thought to be in the company of other relatives. Mary’s concern came when she discovered he wasn’t with them. The theologian was correct in his assessment that the Bible isn’t complete and that there are holes in it. It was never meant to be a handbook. No instructions for baptism, no description of church officers' duties, no instructions on how to ordain, who can do what ordinances and many other things.

2) God’s Spirit led Jesus “into the wilderness” to be “tempted by the devil.” (Luke 4:1, 2) This is not “in order” because God will not lead anyone into temptation. (James 1:14)

The Father did not lead Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted. He went into the wilderness to fast and perhaps to gain knowledge in the way the ancient prophets did. It was only after his 40-day fast that Satan came to tempt him. Although Jesus was divine in nature, he had to learn in mortality the same way everyone else does, line upon line, precept upon precept. What he experienced during the 40 days is not recorded, but it was important for Jesus to fully understand the power and determination of the Adversary.

3) When criticized by the Pharisees on petty matter (picking grain on Sabbath), Jesus tried to offer the counter, citing example of David whom God Himself rated as not being ideal (2 Sam 7:12, 13) Jesus’ logic was: If David can violate a law, we can also! (Luke 6:1-5) Who is unreasonable here—Pharisees or Jesus?

This is ridiculous, and the theologian has completely missed the point. Luke states: “And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands. And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days?” The theologian should not assume that what Jesus and his disciples did was in violation of the law. It was a violation of the law as interpreted by the Pharisees, and the fact that there had been no prophets in Israel for more than 400 years. Jesus and his disciples were hungry, and of course “corn” in this sense was wheat. Under the law, farmers had to leave a portion of their crops open to the hungry. The point wasn’t that since David did it, it was okay for Jesus to do it. It was that the sabbath was made for man, and not vice versa. And, as Jesus was Yahweh before his birth in mortality, he was the one who gave the law and it was he who was the Lord of the Sabbath. How could a trained theologian miss such an obvious point?

5) “One day Jesus said to his disciples, “Let us go over to the other side of the lake.” So they got into a boat and set out. As they sailed, he fell asleep. A squall came down on the lake, so that the boat was being swamped, and they were in great danger. The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Master, Master, we’re going to drown!” (Luke 8:22-24) That Jesus could not discern, in advance, a storm is not in order. (Storm can be discerned in advance and precisely be calculated when it will hit.)

When the apostles asked the Lord, “Master, who did sin, this man or his parents that he was born blind?” — Jesus replied: “Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.” One might reasonably expect this was also true of the storm. Jesus also is the Lord of Creation and has power over the elements. No one was killed or injured, and the works of the Father were made manifest in the storm. That a learned theologian could miss this point raises grave doubts about his education.

And we can go on....

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58

Bible Atrocities

by Trapped in JW land in

i really can't wrap my head around how people can still consider god loving with such atrocious biblical accounts such as, 1 samuel 15, (god ordering the slaughter of amelikite baby's and children) 2nd kings 2, forgot the verses (god sending bears to maul 42 children) and many others.have you ever asked a witness or anyone elsewhat they think about these accounts?

what was their response?

i'd love to ask one, but unfortunately i'm still physically in the cult and i wouldn't want to raise any suspicions.

Cold Steel

What to you may be atrocities, but to God, the command makes perfect sense.

First, I've already covered elsewhere the incident with Elisha and the she-bear. The scripture is mistranslated and it was not little children who mocked Elisha, but mature teenagers. They knew of Elijah and they had heard that Elijah's mantle had fallen on Elisha. As one scholar put it:

As Elisha left Jericho he undoubtedly enjoyed the accolades of a local hero, but as he proceeded up into the mountains of Ephraim he found no such tribute awaiting him at Bethel. In fact, he was set upon by a mob of mature youths (erroneously called "little children" in our version 5 ) who seem to have heard of Elijah's translation and therefore taunted Elisha saying, "Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head." 6 Dr. Adam Clarke says the significance of this cry might be caught in the words, "Ascend, thou empty skull, to heaven, as it is pretended thy master did."7

Elisha at this time was still a rather young man. 8 He had been living with his parents just seven or eight years before when Elijah first called him and from all appearances was still unmarried. He also had nearly 65 years of active service ahead of him so at the time of this incident he was probably in his prime. The words, "bald head" were often used in the old Hebrew vocabulary to imply leprosy since the disease often caused baldness. It was a term of hatred or derision. 9

5. The word "naar" does not necessarily mean a child but is used to describe Solomon at his accession, when he was at least twenty years old. (Geikie, Hours With the Bible, 4:127, note) Dr. Clarke says the word includes "a young man, a servant, or even a soldier, or one fit to go out to battle: and is so translated in a multitude of places in our common English version." He mentions many examples. See Clarke, Bible Commentary, 2:486.

6. 2 Kings 2:23.

7. Clarke, Bible Commentary, 2:186.

8. Geikie, Hours With the Bible, 4:127.

9. Ibid.

As for the Midianites that Moses ordered slain, by the Lord's command, note that he spared only virgins and that he killed the boys. Why would God do this? Because the Midianites were a horribly wicked culture with sexual depravity intertwined with their religious worship. Boys were drawn into it at an early age and were devoted to it for a number of reasons. They certainly would not constrain themselves, but introduce these pagan rites to the Israelites. The same for the women who had engaged in these ritualistic orgies. Only virgins were safe to bring into the Israelite society. The others would have surely polluted it. Check out verses 8-13:

They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.

13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.

15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord ’s people.

Balaam, if you'll recall, was a fallen prophet who, when he was forbidden to curse Israel by the Lord, concocted a plan to seduce the men to the Midianite's vulgar worship. And it worked.

So before bashing the Lord, it's best to check out one's facts.

15

"Who else is preaching in twos? Who else is putting kingdom interests first? Who else rejects the trinity?"

by Island Man in

the next time a jw asks you the questions in the title, just tell them about the "two by twos" and the "cooneyites".. they have some similar beliefs as jws but are even more zealous in putting kingdom interests first, living far simpler and less materialistic lives than even zealous jws.

they reject the triniy as unscriptural.

they preach in twos.

Cold Steel

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints also sends missionaries out by twos, also rejects conventional trinity.

The fact that any church does this doesn't mean they're the only true and living church on the earth. Just setting up an imitation of the early church means nothing. You can get an FBI seal, stick it up on the wall, make your people wear suits, give them guns and badges, and that still won't mean they're the FBI. They may be more competent, but they won't be the FBI!

16

What Do I Do With This RED Book?

by Cold Steel in

some guys visited me a couple of times, and i asked them about the book of revelation.

one of them brought me a red book with a lot of illustrations and at the end of every page or so the guy had dated the day he had read it.

he also marked certain passages.

Cold Steel

I got rid of my old Mormon cult books a long time ago. I still have one called KINGDOM OF THE CULTS by a "Dr." Walter Martin. He also had a segment on some other cults he didn't particularly like, including JWs.

The idea of starting a new religion with it is interesting. Maybe if I told him I woke up in the middle of the night hearing a voice, and I followed it, and it was coming from the red book. "It really creeped me out, so if you want it, come get it!" It's got pretty cool art in it. I reckon they don't put any value on books like that.

I'm putting most of my books on my new Kindle HDX. Nice devices, but a bit of a rip-off.